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January 16, 2009
[This is Dr Shermer's cross-examination of Dr Jacoby.]
The debate between international Christian speaker Douglas Jacoby and agnostic and skeptic Michael Shermer took place Saturday June 23, the highlight of the 2007 International Apologetics Conference, sponsored by the Apologetics Research Society. The debate topic: Does God Exist?
Dr. Shermer is one of the three or four most famous atheist / agnostic scholars in the world, author of 12 books and President of the Skeptic Society. He has held dozens of debates, appeared on Oprah, 20/20, Dateline, Tom Snyder, Larry King Live and The History Channel. Dr. Jacoby, director of the Athens Institute of Ministry, has spoken in hundreds of cities in some 80 nations.
This exciting event was held before a packed house, with an overflow crowd watching close circuit monitors outside the venue. Kedron Jones (Board member of ARS) was moderator and affable host. Shermer and Jacoby both bring their best analytical skills to this debate. The interchange is lively, with both speakers willing to concede points made by their opponent. You will benefit greatly from weighing the arguments put forth. Douglas’ clear and incisive arguments for the existence of God are persuasive. He argues from cosmology (both its creation and its complexity). and the unmistakable fact that moral absolutes are part of reality. Shermer makes the case that religions are socially constructed, historically dependent, and that the faith you adhere to and the god you believe in depend largely on when in history and where in the world you were born.
The two-hour debate is lively, engaging and instructional. You can watch each speaker’s opening, rebuttal, rebuttal summary, and conclusion here at YouTube. For the entire debate in one DVD, however, including the 40+ minute Q&A session, please visit www.douglasjacoby.com. The Skeptics Society website is www.skeptic.com.
To post further comments, please visit Jacoby’s forum at www.jacobyblogs.com.
Duration : 0:6:18
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Horaayy..there are 25 comment(s) for me so far ;)
So…. GOD sort of. …
So…. GOD sort of… changed his mind along the way then…
It probably rots …
It probably rots the guy from the inside out, all in the name of what? He obviously wrestles with the inconsistencies of the Old Testament.
dodge dodge dodge…
dodge dodge dodge…
but one could cite …
but one could cite fascist governemnts. just because things might be horrible, or not to our tastes, does not make them any less right, unless you believe in absolutes. don’t get what you would prefer confused with what might actually be. there is every chance absolutes don’t exist, and this world is a grey world where strength in numbers prevails. i would posit a base morality existing in humans, and the argument for or against it is no different than arguing for or against a physical constant.
annoying how jacoby …
annoying how jacoby just stalls and doesn’t answer the question presented by shermer.
i think most would suspect he KNOWS the answer, he just refused to give into it because it would be a blow to his religious senses.
so he just simply doesn’t say it out loud, goodness knows how he deals with it in his head, denial is an ugly business.
The most important …
The most important point not being made here is that if you want to avoid moral relativism, then morality cannot be grounded in something finite. For example, morality cannot be grounded only in a government, since one could cite the fascist governments who allowed the persecution of innocent people. Likewise, morality cannot be grounded only in our conscience, since each individual conscience is shaped by external things, i.e. what if Charles Manson followed his conscience?
Allow me to answer …
Allow me to answer the question for him. They pick out whichever biblical laws are contemporarily convenient. They push whichever ones will fly in modern society and make excuses for the ones that won’t. As society progresses they will have to throw out more biblical laws and come up with more reasons why the remaining ones should still be applicable,
My goodness, Jacoby …
My goodness, Jacoby completely dodged the question. And not even very well.
Don’t you see that …
Don’t you see that the story of Jesus written many years after his death was written to fit the prophecies? How can you be so trusting of a 2000 year old book? Muhammad fits prophecies too.
Actually, Jesus …
Actually, Jesus spoke on how he did not come to “abolish” the Law (OT) or Phophets, but fulfill them [Mt 5:17]. (I believe that the OT is full of things we can learn as Dr. Jacoby explained; Jesus was Phophesized in the OT and alot of story’s link to him, and as you read on in Mt, he explains some of the teachings in the OT better, proving there value.)
Be it the case, as pointed out in the Book of Hew (8-10), we DONT live under the Old Covenant, but the New
*sry, i wrote under kaga13, lol
Actually, Jesus …
Actually, Jesus spoke on how he did not come to “abolish” the Law (OT) or Phophets, but fulfill them [Mt 5:17]. (I believe that the OT is full of things we can learn as Dr. Jacoby explained; Jesus was Phophesized in the OT and alot of story’s link to him, and as you read on in Mt, he explains some of the teachings in the OT better, proving there value.)
Be it the case, as pointed out in the Book of Hew (8-10), we DONT live under the Old Covenant, but the New.
Shermer simply lays …
Shermer simply lays waste to Jacoby in this debate. Jacoby’s arguments are extremely weak here.
I wasn’t going to …
I wasn’t going to comment, but at 5:15 I can’t resist. This is THE MOST pathetic display of theistic dodging I have seen so far. Jacoby was quite eloquent when regurgitating his god of the gaps intro in videos 1,2. Now we see his true character, completely unable to participate in 1 on 1 rational discussion. Shermer lays waste to everything he say’s.
Mr.Jacoby, although …
Mr.Jacoby, although very eloquent demonstrates in this clip the most extensive display of dodging I have ever come across in any debate in my life!
tsk tsk that …
tsk tsk that christian guy is being very slimey. He’s a con man.
Very poor responses …
Very poor responses by Jacoby in this section…. I thought he was kind of smart, one of the better debates, but after this… God.
gosh! The Jacoby …
gosh! The Jacoby guy is quite a substandard thinker. I felt sorry for him as he couldn’t follow the line of questioning . . . [sigh]
I can’t believe the …
I can’t believe the theists so often get away with claiming the idea of absolute morality without being shot down in flames immediately. They claim that their beliefs about what is right and wrong are divinely inspired. This is an opinion, based purely on belief, not evidence. The theist morality is thus on exactly the same footing as atheist morality – it is a matter of opinion and consensus; and fundamentally, natural human, instinctive, evolutionary necessary solidarity and morality.
The argument that …
The argument that there is an absolute underpinning to morality is attractive, but Shermer wins on this issue of morality. The moderator saved Jacoby’s skin.”Time!”
The landlord isn’t …
The landlord isn’t all knowing and have magical powers. Mistakes from a perfect being is unacceptable.
I love how people …
I love how people are so selective and nitpick out the good parts only.
Dr Jacoby was …
Dr Jacoby was good at dodging a single question. I haven’t seen that done so well since Michael Howard was asked by Jeremy Paxman “Did you threaten to overrule him?” Jacoby was probably even better than Howard!
“The athetist …
“The athetist sounds like a retard. And I’m not saying this to bash athiests hes just very unprepared and more rambling.”
Speaking of retards, there are THREE spelling errors in your little emotional rant, that’s an error rate of 14.3% of words. A person who’s incapable of spelling a 3 letter word correctly (he’s) sounds like a retard.
The athetist sounds …
The athetist sounds like a retard. And I’m not saying this to bash athiests hes just very unprepared and more rambling.
falcrist- your …
falcrist- your defense would be pretty weak. God then gave immoral laws to govern cultures!